Episode 10 - Creativity

In this episode, Sarah Dusek and Mona De Vestel discuss the topic of creativity and how it can arise from moments of destruction and difficulty. They explore the idea of finding renewal and transformation in the ashes of challenging experiences. They share personal stories of facing setbacks and how those moments have sparked new ideas and pathways. The conversation emphasizes the importance of being intentional and focused in order to harness creativity and solve problems. They encourage listeners to share their own stories and embrace their unique creative potential.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Creativity
• 0:45 Creativity comes from Destruction
• 8:16 The Fuel of Creativity is Disaster
• 16:24 Embracing Challenges and Finding New Life
• 20:20 Laser-Focused Engagement: The Key to Creativity
• 27:09 Creativity as Problem Solving
• 35:28 Making Big Things Happen Together

Transcript

0:00

Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Women Doing Big Things podcast. I'm Sarah Dusek and... I'm Mona de Vestel can hardly believe it, but this is our last episode for this season. We are 10 episodes in and we are here to talk about our final topic, we are talking about creativity today and it's one of my favorite topics of all times because it's the kernel of everything that is, right? Creativity. How do we create things? How do we get our ideas? How do we generate energy to continue to build and do big things in the world? So I'm really thrilled to be here today. Yeah, let's dig in. Where are we going to go? Where are we going to access creativity today? You know, I was thinking about creativity in terms of the episodes that we've talked about recently. And the last one was burnout and the one before that was grief. and I thought creativity is the perfect topic to segue these two areas because. I keep going back to the same image, which is, wildfires, right? Wildfires that. destroy and burn down everything in their path. And you get to the ashes, much like the Phoenix, there is a rejuvenation that's inherent in that process of destruction and combustion and recycling and transformation and transmutation, right? It's like our grief our process of just reaching the bottom of the barrel, right? allows us in some ways to say, okay, what is next? Like I've burnt this thing down to the ground, essentially. And it doesn't have to be this way, but I'm just starting with the really the heart of the kernel of like, can we build sparks of creativity, renewal, transformation from ashes, from the ashes of whatever it is that we've have gone through, all the challenges. all the battles, all the struggles, right? Can we create something out of that? And of course, when we're in it, the answer is probably most likely no. I'm trying to stay alive right now. But I do believe that the answer is yes, absolutely. I don't know if this speaks to you, Sarah, in any way, Well, I am excited to talk about this topic because I feel like I'm just coming out of a week where everything has been burning to the ground. Okay, good. it's timely for me because I've had one of those weeks that, we often have as entrepreneurs in particular, when it feels like the world is ending, like so many difficulties, so many challenges, so many things beyond your control, all happening at one time. And it always feels like that's it. We're over game over. This is, this is bad. This is difficult. And all I've got is ash. And I was reflecting just this last week about just how many times I was trying to encourage myself, but it was the sense of just how many times I got to this point whilst I was building under canvas. And it was not an insignificant sum. Mm It probably happened, you know, in really quite strong ways, at least five or six times in the decade that I pioneered and tried to scale under Canvas. And these moments are kind of pivotal. They're kind of make or break moments. And I do think it's interesting to connect them with creativity. I mean, I think they're connected. And I'm glad that you're connecting them in the heart, in the crux of everything that you're saying you're going through, which is, I think this is where we can be hopeful. I think that this gives and energy and propels us to something that can carry us over the threshold of the next thing. Because when you're in that ash, you think there's no way that anything good is going to come out of this. Like game is over. But I always go back to nature because nature is a great teacher. I was fascinated with fires just because obviously it's something that, you're constantly trying to avoid here in Southern California. And I looked at a town nearby that had burned down to the ground and years later, two or three years later, everything is growing back, but growing back in a way that is better, more vibrant, and there's more variety and robustness to the vegetation that was there before. And it actually called and eliminated things that the earth no longer needed and was no longer served by this vegetation. And so I'm thinking about our struggles as women doing big things and how can we learn from nature? What can we learn from that process? I think there's tremendous wisdom there to say that when we're in the heart of the battle, very little room to take some time and learn from it. But once you lick your wounds, and you retreat and you begin that healing process of like, that was something. That one was hard. There is the absolute inherent presence of potential for rejuvenation and growth in a way that is unparalleled I think that creativity comes forth from that. One of the things that I've found with challenges, I know I've mentioned cancer a couple of times, cancer has been an incredible teacher, it has taught me what is my authentic life, what do I want, and there's no approximation any longer. for the life that I want to create. It's not like this is good enough for now, this is fine, I'm not really happy here, but it's like no, no, no, no, there's no approximation. But that's what creativity after the ashes is, which is there's no more approximation. There's absolute kernel of spark of passion that you may have disregarded, that you may have set aside and said, well, maybe I'll do that another time, maybe I'll do that in a couple of years, or That sure is a great idea, but who knows? Once you've been through that battle and you're licking your wounds, one thing that you know is that you're not going to put up with anything less than the absolute laser-focused passion of your desires, of your vision, of what you want to bring forth into the world. Yeah, it's so easy to feel like the ash is the end of everything. Like the ash is a full stop when actually it's fertilizer and actually it is the essence of everything that puts energy back into the soil. And I know we've talked a lot about soil over the last 10 weeks. I'm kind of obsessed with this kind of metaphor because it's this, it's a very interesting connection to our own lives. And it kind of grounds us in a very literal way with where am I getting my energy from? How am I finding strength through challenging times? And if I've learned anything over the last 15 years about entrepreneurship, is I know I only have so much capacity to deal with crises and moments of difficulty and moments of extreme pressure if I am well -nourished. And if I being drained in too many directions all at once, ability to sustain anything or navigate through those times is also diminished. And I need to remain nourished. recognizing that the hard things that happen to us, the difficult things that happen to us, the difficult experiences we have, do not have to be depletive. We can view them with a extractive lens in terms of how do I lever this? How do I allow this to feed me? How do I allow good to come from what something seems like might be disaster? And I know every time I've hit a wall and it looks like I'm definitely at the end of something and all my efforts have not succeeded and everything I've thrown at the wall has failed. And, and I've experienced this moment of defeat. Every time I give myself time and space to recover from the disappointment of that, I have great ideas about, okay, well, that didn't work. How about this instead? And it's almost like hitting a wall or everything being burned to the ground, however we want to define it. is an opportunity to completely look at the situation or the moment or the experience with completely different eyes. and sometimes it takes me a while to recover from the burn. Sometimes the burn really hurts. It really stings and it feels like I'm, I'm out. I'm out for the count. But as long as I give myself time to recover from that and I allow the ash to settle and I allow it to go to work its way through me, I cannot think of a time where it has not birthed creativity, a new pathway, a new idea. There's not been a moment in my 20 year history of being in business where I've got to the end, or what I think is the end, and there has not been a tiny little sliver of light at the end of the tunnel, or a new idea, or a new thought about, okay, well, back to the drawing board, but how about this? And every single time, that idea, that thought, that opportunity has been better than the thing that died. which of course doesn't diminish the pain of the loss and of having to, and I'm constantly asking, why do we have to do this? Like, why did we have to get here to have this idea? Why would it have to look like this? but every single time in moments of complete annihilation, however we define that personally, there has always been. something that comes out of it that is. better, different, extraordinary, has more potential. The hard part about that is allowing yourself to go through the fire. And I was talking with an entrepreneur this last week who, her fire was bad. Her fire was big. fire was catastrophic. I looked at the situation and realized, this is one of those moments that if you survive this moment, you can come through this moment. Extraordinary things are possible. Like it's almost like, you know, A Phoenix moment is possible with like, something extraordinary could happen because of this moment. And it's almost like the extraordinary thing could not happen without this moment. It takes this moment to create something that could not have been born any other way. Absolutely, absolutely. I agree with you. I think the defeat is not the end. The ash is not the full stop and the energetic connection to the Phoenix is very real in our lives rising from the ashes. I agree with you. I think the challenge really truly in allowing creativity to come to us is to tolerate the uncertainty that is felt, that is experienced in the midst of that, you know, ash, the tabula rasa, the absolute clean slate of a new beginning, which is terrifying, especially when you've been building things for years. You know, I mean, Of course we could talk about somebody whose business has been eradicated to the ground and that's one tabula rasa, but there's also sometimes an energetic tabula rasa, is like, I have been wiped clean. I am done. am so depleted and empty right now. I've got nothing left to give or to create. I don't see it. I don't feel it. I think the challenge is if we sit with that uncertainty, we certainly can come through to the other side of creativity. I believe that to be true. That's the challenge though, right? To be able to sit with it in the moment. And in those moments, I will tell you no lie, in those moments, I want to throw all of my toys out of the pram and say, I'm done. I'm over it. I'm out. And it's a very extreme visceral response that I have to the pain that I feel with regards to the loss. And I was sitting with this exact same feeling this weekend and, the intensity of it. And my emotions are up to my eyeballs. Like, you know, that moment when if someone just pokes you, you're like, you're a hot mess and it's all out there. And my teenager said something fairly innocuous to me over lunch instantly I'm finding myself sitting at the lunch table at dinner, eating my Sunday roast with like tears pouring down my face. And this child really, you know, did nothing other than be a little bit obnoxious, which, you know, teenagers are allowed to do from time to time, right? And my kids are sitting at the table looking at me. going, what do we do? Like, it wasn't that bad. And, and I am suddenly getting a glimmer into, I am in a heightened state. Like this is, this is pain and you poke me just a little bit and it all like, it all starts to spread itself out. And I realized, okay, there's an opportunity here. I am not okay. So saying that out loud to myself, as I'm saying to my kids, it's fine. I'm fine. It's all fine. It's definitely not fine. I was not fine, but taking a step back from that moment and then suddenly realizing, this is where I'm at right now. This is how I'm feeling about everything that's going on right now. And I realized I was quite annoyed. I'll let you into a secret. Like here's my dirty secret of the week. I have been a successful entrepreneur. And I found myself feeling angry, angry that as I continue to be an entrepreneur and I continue to want to make things happen that don't exist yet. I was like, I'm back at the drawing board. I'm back at the starting line and I don't want to be like I did this once already. And it was like, do we really have to do it like this all over again? And it was like my subconscious said, Well, this is the journey. The question is, are you going to do it different than you did it before? And I was like, yes, I have built a company from scratch before and, you know, built it to be something huge. And now I want to do that again. I want to go again with building new companies and creating more things and making more things happen. And the reality question was, well, are you going to do it differently than you did it before? Because the same challenges and the same disasters and the same hard things are just going to come because that's what it looks like. That's the reality. And, invitation to you is can you experience it differently? Can you do it in a different way? Can you take all the lessons that you learned from 15 years of hard slog and can you embrace those in a different way? Knowing. that the fire will still come to destroy everything in its path. And I was like, but I don't want the fire to come. I want to do this. without like having to experience these fires and without having to experience the hard things that come our way. And it's really easy. I know when we look at, know, whoever we look at online and think, well, they were really successful. They just nailed that. They made those things happen. It's so easy to look and go, that was probably easy. And the reality is, it's never easy. It's never straightforward trying to bring something to life, create something, make something happen, do big things. It's never easy. The only question is, is how do we, how do we learn from what we've done before? how do we find new life after every single one of those times when that happens? think what you're posing the question, how do I rise from these ashes? How do I get myself back up? How do I learn from these tremendous challenges? How do I bring forth all of my desires into form, right? I think once you've engaged with yourself in that laser focus, sharp focus, You reconnect with yourself in the midst of the storm that's whirling around you. You're in the basement. You don't know if the roof is going to hold, but you're in there and you're hunkering down and you're saying, okay, What do I need to nourish myself? Right? And the second thing is I think laser focus engagement with others, with community, with collaborators, with other entrepreneurs or in my case, other writers, other artists, you know, that collaboration, That's how creativity is born, right? It's like sparks of light igniting in the darkness because you're engaging from an authentic place with yourself and with others, community. And that's when things just take off. But I think that laser focus engagement with yourself is essential. That's the building block. That's the foundation. Yeah. And I read this beautiful proverb, an ancient proverb over the weekend that said almost exactly what you're saying, Mona. And it said, where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint. And in a different version, it says where there is no vision, the people perish. But I loved that idea about there is no restraint. When you don't have vision, when you don't have clarity, there's no need to restrain yourself. There's no need to like be focused. But as soon as you have a vision, as soon as you have some kind of clarity about what it is you are trying to create, what it is you are trying to birth or give to the world, then you need restraint. Then you need focus. Then you need. to dial in and get really, really laser focused. And that was what this weekend did to me. It was like, I have a very clear vision. I have a very clear understanding about what I'm trying to do and why. And therefore I cannot allow myself to be unrestrained with myself. Like I cannot give my time away willy nilly. I cannot be unfocused about how I invest myself or what I give myself to. If I have a vision, if I have clarity, I need to be restrained with myself. And being restrained with myself can look like a whole variety of different things. I have learned about myself over the last, particularly the last decade, but even more so over the last five years, that I am a very sensitive soul. Like my nervous system is... acutely sensitive. So because I know this about myself, I have to be careful what I expose myself to. I have to be careful what I listen to, what I watch, who I talk to, what I engage with because I'm really sensitive. And all sorts of things can throw me into dysregularity. And the more I understand my sensitivities, You know, and I, I happen to believe my sensitives are my strengths. they're my, they're my superpower. They're what makes me very powerful. But if I don't protect myself, if I don't like. shepherd myself a little bit, it's very easy for me to get dysregulated and to get all over the place and to like be overwhelmed. And when I'm overwhelmed, I basically don't function. Like if I'm overwhelmed, I can't make anything happen. So understanding myself and understanding, you know, Those things, use them to your advantage. Use them to help you get lift off, to help you make things happen, to help you create and imagine and bring the things to life that you can imagine. But I have to exercise some restraint because I know that, because I have vision, because I have a sense of this is what I'm trying to be and who I'm trying to be in the world. cannot afford to cast off restraint. I have to be really, really laser focused on this is what I can have on my plate. This is who I can engage with. This is what I can tolerate in this moment in this space because of who I know myself to be. And all of that is a tool for helping me Bring the things that only I can bring to the world. And that's, that's true for all of us, right? There are things that only you, Mona, can bring to the world. There are things that you, listener, only you can bring to the world that no one else can do because no one else is made exactly like you. And how you harness yourself and how you focus yourself and how you allow the things that happen to you to bring life. out of you is really where the magic is. But it's interesting, when I listen to you say restraint, maybe you and I are thinking of the word restraint differently. When I hear you say restraint, I immediately say, nothing shall restrain me. Like I am free and I am unfettered. know, it's the opposite for me. Restraint is the opposite of creativity. But I think what you mean and correct me if I'm wrong. I think you mean restraint as in focused guidance. Focused guidance because for me, creativity, when I visualize what creativity is, if I had to describe it to like my sixth grader, my 11 year old, I would say it's a spark of light that ignites in darkness. And that comes from, I have no idea where, it just came from otherworldly. There's an otherworldliness to it, right? It comes through me, but it's not of me. And, when you say restraint, think you mean guiding that spark into focus, into intention, into vision, into manifestation. I think maybe that's what you mean by restraint. that, is that right? Intention. that word intentionality. It's like, how can I be intentional with my focus? It's like, I can't afford to not be intentional. that language obviously is ancient language, so it's maybe not the best language for right here, right now, but that's the essence of it. It's like, I can't afford to not. harness myself and be focused in myself and allow this melting pot, this crucible, if you like, it's my job to turn it into gold or allow it to become gold within me. That's the challenge, I think. Yeah, And that's the beauty of it too. I think of creativity as an extension of ourselves, like an inherent quality to our very being. And I don't mean to sound so woo woo in that sense, but I think it's in terms of nature. Like it's like a genetic code of wiring. We are. We are. Yeah. sensitive creativity could be put alongside of all of those things, right? I am also this. Yeah, but I think it's true of everyone because some people say, I've even, you know, led workshops and a lot of times participants will say, well, I'm not that creative. I'm not a creative person. I don't think of myself as artistic. And I think, well, but I mean, that brush, that land that was burned down to the ground has an inherent quality of rejuvenation that's built into it. That's that creative force of I'm going to rebuild this land and repopulate it with vibrant new vegetation that has never even been as vibrant as this is like almost like encoded in itself. And I think we are encoded with creativity, whether we are of the most logical, scientifically, mathematically minded beings. You know, we have an inherent creative quality to us. that is built in, it's not a to do item. It's sort of like allowing yourself to be, to have an expression of who you are. That's what creativity is, is allowing yourself to be authentically you in whatever form that may be. It doesn't have to be some kind of like, I don't know, painting on a canvas or, you know, creating the next, you know, bestselling novel or, I building that next product that the entire planet's been waiting for, right? I think creativity can be boiled down to problem solving. I think you're right to distinguish it from its artistic form, but I think creativity in its essence, I think I also love the word rejuvenation. It's like bringing something out of nothing. It's, it's solving a problem. It's creating something new. It's making something happen. And this whole podcast series has been about women doing big things. And it's like, how do we make big things happen? we use our creativity. We use our problem solving skills. We use the rejuvenation that we get when things just seem like they've burned to the ground. And it's like, we bring life out of nothing. And that is the heart of creativity. That is the heart of what we're talking about with making things, bringing things to life. And that being a part of who we are as human beings, rather than a skill we may or may not have. Yeah, I love what you say about creativity is problem solving. I mean, that is true of a bestselling novel When you read a great book, you are ignited with creativity of your own thinking, my gosh, she just expressed something. that I have never said out loud to anyone. And now I'm solving my own human problem because someone has seen me without ever meeting me. They have seen inside my soul. That's why people gravitate towards certain books because you can engage with it on a humanity level. It's the same way people buy products, right? Or the same way people want to use a service because it solves something instinctual that is a need for us all. And therefore we want to use that item. We want to buy that, that service or read that book. It's like it connects with us because it meets our needs. And that's the essence of what we're talking about here is how... Do we create things that meet needs? How do we make things happen that move the world forward? How do we bring to life what's inside of us and give it to the world so that the world is advanced in some tiny, small little way because of what we gave birth to, because of what we brought to life, because of what came out of the ashes from us. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly right. And what we're saying here is... We like to think that our creative moments, our problem solving moments always come when we're in a great mood, life is good and all is well. But the reality is sometimes our best ideas and our best moments are sometimes when all of it has burned to the ground. Yes, we don't need creativity to burn us to the ground. for sure, but sometimes that is the reality of life and how we harness that and how we allow it to create something new is where the magic really is. Yeah, absolutely. when you're in the crucible of those emotions or that feeling or that frustration or that fear sometimes, that fear of like, this is rock bottom, this is not great, this is not a great moment. And then all of a sudden, spark will come And that's, I think that's our genetic code of survival, of transformation, of rising above, of moving through things and building a new, building new things that have never been built before through that kernel of that perception of your challenge. that is unique to you, has a universal quality. your story is unique. the universal lens of our humanity is seen through that unique story. And that's why we build things, we create things, we write books, we launch products, we launch podcasts. We're trying to... to connect one person at a time in encouraging someone else to do and make big things. Yeah, exactly. So on that note, we would love to know what creativity, what spark this podcast series has sparked in you. I know it has sparked so many different things for me on so many different levels, but we would love you to join our community with sharing some of the things that have come out of the ashes for you. in this season, in this moment in time. we have loved being with you. This is our last episode of this season, but we hope to be back for another season. If you'll have us back, we would love to be back. So join us, share your stories, share your moment, your light bulb moments, because your light bulb moments could be a light bulb moment for someone else. And that's... the power that we have of sharing our stories and sharing our journeys with each other. Yes, keep sharing your stories with us. Keep sharing your joys, your victories, your challenges, your dreams, your visions. I have loved every moment of these 10 episodes. I have loved our conversations with you, Sarah, and I hope that we can continue and to spark creativity in all of you, our listeners, and it has been a wonderful journey. Thank you so much. And let's keep making big things happen together because when big things happen, we can drive the changes that we want to see. Absolutely. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank you, Sarah. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again next time. See you next time.